Jessica Burrell Interview Transcript
Nancy Rush:
Welcome Jessica, I'm super excited to have you here! Let me introduce you by reading your bio. Jessica is a leadership and business coach and transformational leadership trainer. She has served as the CEO of Amplify Your Vision for the last three years, and most recently became the CEO of Next Level Trainings. You're not busy at all, huh? <Laugh>.
She leads her organizations through her core pillars of vision, integrity, courage, and trust. She's committed to creating a space for everyone to be able to focus on their zone of genius, as well as be in humble service to change the world through leadership and emotional intelligence.
Jessica's been leading teams and projects for over 24 years in both the corporate and private sectors, including being an entrepreneur herself. She is passionate about personal development, development, knowing that businesses only grow to the degree that their leadership grows.
That's so fantastic, and that's so true, I love that. As we mentioned in our pre-conversation, I love that you've married this idea of the philanthropy in the world, being in service and coupling that with what actually people are trying to do on their own. So tell me a little bit more about what is a transformational leader trainer? What is that? What does it mean and what's awesome about it?
Jessica Burrell:
Oh my gosh, thank you, thanks for having me, Nancy. I'm excited to be here and what a great question. What does that even mean? What does transformation, facilitator, trainer mean? For me, in the most basic functionality, we think about what coaching means, and essentially if you're in the coaching world or you're new to it, it's like a personal trainer, like a gym personal trainer, but a personal trainer for your mind and our belief system. So, when we're born and within the first few years of our life, we have a belief system that starts to get hardwired for us. Then it plays out in every area of our life. Many times, we don't even realize we are doing the things that we do.
In fact, Nancy and I were saying right before she hit record, I was saying sometimes my body feels tired and wants to take a nap when I'm procrastinating. Logically and intellectually, I'm like, but Jessica, you’re busy. You have a lot on the go, maybe you do need to take a nap. And sometimes I do, but sometimes I am napping to avoid. But if I didn't have the skillset that I do around my leadership and transformation and saying, hey, wait, this is how my body shows up to sabotage me to hold me back. Weren't you just working on a really big project, Jessica, your deadline is approaching, and you were feeling uncomfortable because there were elements that you weren't ready to present yet, and all of a sudden, you're tired, <laugh>. You did get enough sleep last night. You're well caffeinated. There's no reason for you to be tired. So, that's really what I think about, those behaviors that we run on automatic or habituated behaviors.
They're so habituated and ingrained in us. We don't even realize that they're stopping us from doing the things we want to be doing. We're not even present to it. So, a transformational trainer starts to support people. I teach teams of people, groups of people. They start to see their patterns and behaviors and how their patterns or behaviors are helping them. That's still true. Sometimes it's helpful and sometimes it's holding them back and it's like, oh, why can't I fill in the blank? And when anyone is saying, why can't I, and filling in the blank, there's often an old habituated pattern that they're not even present to. That is really the thing that's stopping them. So, we start to see their functionality in their life.
So, I really want to connect it to the gym analogy. I love the gym analogy. It's such a good one because many of us have been to the gym. Many of us have had a personal trainer or at least know what that means. It's like you go to the gym and you come into a training and you say, I want to get healthier. Then your personal trainers start to assess, okay, where are you strong? Where are your weaker areas? And then they give you exercises to start keeping the strong muscles strong and start rebuilding the muscles that are a little weaker. That's what we do with the belief system. You asked me why it's awesome. Oh my gosh, <laugh>, I kind of said this earlier too. I was like, I'm in the business of people's emotions and belief system. It's awesome because we just had a training, I just came off a really, really big weekend where people transformed their beliefs about themself.
Nancy Rush:
Wow.
Jessica Burrell:
That's why it's awesome. I got an email from one of our students who said, I never take time for myself, let alone take time for myself to examine my life from this lens of possibility and what I really want, or what I say that I want, because I think I quote unquote should say this, or society thinks I should, or my mom said I should, but actually what I really want is this. So, I don’t know how I'm getting there yet, but I know now it's clear. Now at least I have a destination in mind, so then I can get to the work of mapping up that GPS and getting there.
Nancy Rush:
I think that's so fantastic. What you do, and this is similar to parts of how we work with our clients too, is really helping them to understand where these limiting beliefs and actions are. To your point, most of the time they don't even recognize that they're there. It's like we get to come in and connect the dots and help them see what actually is limiting and holding them back. Then they have that opportunity for breakthrough. And much to your gym analogy, which I do love that analogy too, I always think of it when I worked with my personal trainer, especially early on, she was always correcting my form. If I was doing squats as an example, she would make sure that I had that perfect form. It feels like that's exactly what you're talking about, is this way to attain support, not only to recognize the blind spots, but then to be supported through the process. Because look, it's a transition for anybody doing this sort of self-analysis. This is deep, profound work. Trying to do it all by yourself is really tough. And I would imagine in your settings, particularly because you work with teams, it's such a beautiful reflection what one person is going through for everybody else that's involved. So, I love that, so great.
Jessica Burrell:
Absolutely. We don't train this, but I know I'm a big fan of Brene Brown for years and years. I think I read her first book when it came out so long ago. I've been really entrenched in understanding vulnerability and shame and all of everything she talks about. One thing about the group setting that I really want to highlight and just pin is shame. We all experience shame as humans, and it is the most damaging thing for our mental health. The worst part about it is we feel so much shame, so we can't speak it. Shame thrives in hiding, and shame thrives in not being spoken.
So, when we come together and we have the courage to speak about the things that are holding us back, especially the ones that we feel shameful about, and we put a voice to them and we name them and other people start to shake their head, we realize we're not alone. We put light on it, and all of a sudden, the shame starts to dissipate and get smaller. I think that alone gives me goosebumps, and it brings a tear to my eye and expands my heart because I'm like, if all I do is put people together and they feel less shame about themselves, and that was it, it’s way more than that, but if that was it, I'm like, wow, it's transformation.
Nancy Rush:
I think it's really profound and I love that you named shame, because that is to me one of the hidden saboteurs that the people are actively dealing with since most people are taught to just shove everything down, not process their emotions, and then present this very united facade to the world within the inside. They're not exactly a hot mess, but they're not okay. So, I think this is a profound thing that you do where you're giving people the opportunity to recognize and acknowledge and name their shame, and then not have to be this dirty little secret that nobody knows. Because probably a lot of what limits people from talking about their shame is their fear of being judged. So, being able to be in a supportive environment, that's a judgment free zone, that is really liberating. I've been through it and it's why I always work with a business mentor because it's this opportunity to have someone else witness what I'm going through and then provide that support, that guidance. So that's very, very cool. In your questions, you mentioned a four-step process to accomplish pretty much anything. I have to say, I am totally curious about this. So, explain to me what this process is.
Jessica Burrell:
Everyone's going to feel like we're filling up a balloon, like, oh my God, it's this four step process! I'm going to tell you, and then you're going to be like, oh, and it's going to feel like the balloon gets deflated. <Laugh>. It’s not a secret sauce, because I don't believe in secret sauces, it is putting the reps in. We really talked about this being the gym analogy, and if I want to get better at anything, I have to put the reps in. So, it's like the system that I use, and it is about having the right mindset. So, we start with our mindset and getting our mindset straight. Every single morning, I wake up and I take a deep breath in, and some mornings I'm like, let's f’ing go, I don't know if I can swear, <Laugh>. I'm jumping out of bed and my mindset's right from the jump. And then other mornings I wake up and I don't feel that way. And I'm like, I don't want to get up. I don’t want to do all of my to-do lists, all the things.
So, in that moment, I meet myself right there, and I work through my mindset routine in the morning. It's breathing, it's meditation, it's affirmations, it's all of my personal morning thing to get my mindset straight before every call. Before I got on the call with you, I sat at my desk, and I grounded, and I got really clear in my mind and how do I want to show up and serve you and serve this audience? Because I am a servant leader. So, it is not about me. How do I allow my words to serve people? So, mindset, every, it's my first step in all the things. Then to get something done, it's about strategy. Strategy is a fancy word. I remember I'm a business coach.
I'm like, oh, strategy. I'm like, it's a plan. A strategy is a plan. What is your plan? So, now my mindset is set, and I create a plan. I have planners out the ears. I love planning. Many people do. And we can't let the plan stop us from the next step, which is committed action. Because we love to plan and planning planners are pretty, and everyone's like, but I've been planning. And I'm like, that's nice, how's your execution going? What is your committed action? Because planning isn't doing the thing. Planning is planning the thing. So, until we're actually in committed action doing the dang thing, we're not doing it <laugh>. So, committed action is the third step. I call it committed action because it's not random, because I'm clear on my mindset.
I'm clear on my plan and my strategy. So, now I can really take action because I'm clear on the action that I'm taking. I'm not throwing spaghetti at the wall. Trust me, I love the creative process. I'm not judging that. There's a time and a place for spaghettis at walls. But in this one its clear committed action based on my mindset and based on my strategy. Then the last part is around consistency. So, it is coming in and going, I can't just do the thing once, I like to do that. That's very much my personality. I'm like, but I did it. I worked out one time. Where's my results? I ate that salad. How come my, my scale's not lower <laugh>? And same with our mindset. The words I like to say are, how do I continue to show up for myself? It's really those four pieces for anything I can apply, I can take that and I can overlay it on absolutely everything in my life.
Nancy Rush:
I'm going to be honest and say the balloon is not deflated because I think what you've done is you've brought it all together in this nice simple package. Who can't accomplish four steps if you really set your mind to it. I absolutely have learned the value of that morning routine. Not just immediately diving for the phone and seeing who's emailed me or texted me or whatever, but really taking that time to get my head on straight, because it really sets the tone for the rest of the day.
Then I have also found, and I imagine you do too, is that if things are getting really chaotic and busy, I will take a 10-minute break and go right back to some aspect of that morning routine. And again, it's just realigning as you're moving through your day. Then the part of the plan, I've been guilty of this, I'm an awesome planner. I can like build a project plan like nobody else. And I could do that as a self-sabotage, keeping me completely out of committed action <laugh>.
So, I love what you're saying about this committed action. I learned from another mentor to block time on my calendar for the things that I had to get done and then stay committed to those blocks. If a kid called and needed something, you would attend to that, but afterwards, this block of time has been handled. That was probably one of the hardest things for me to do, especially since many of us do work from home. We do have competing priorities.
Jessica Burrell:
If we can just stay in committed action for a moment, my body reacts to committed action. What I mean by that is I make sure I've went to the bathroom first and I have my little snacky and I have my drinks here because the second I sit down for a committed action my comfort zone is like want, want, want, want. Because I'm doing the thing and it's often scary. So, my habituation is to start, I'm a strong starter. I start everything really, really well. It's completion, completion energy, and closing loops energy. That is always my stretch, because I'm like, let's go, let's go, let's go. So, I'm pretty high energy <laugh>, in case you couldn't tell <laugh>. So, now I'm here and I play a lot of mental games with myself. I gamify a lot of things that I'm up to because I know me. I've done so much work on me, I know me well enough that I need that extra incentive for completion. So, I have my drinks, I have all the things. I'm like, okay, I get to complete this and I can't move until I’m done.
I can't pick up my phone and scroll Instagram, because I also notice the weirdest habits show up. All of a sudden, I wanted that junk drawer cleaned that I haven't given a crap about for six months, <laugh>. I'm like, I should probably go clean my junk drawer like it really needs attending to. Then I'm like, oh, look at you self-sabotage. Sneaky little sucker. Or suddenly, I want to scroll Instagram, or I want to go change the channel. I listened to a YouTube and it's in the other room and I'm like, I need to go change that episode <laugh>.
So, I notice it, I catch it. Because it's also my habituation, like we talked about from earlier people. I have it too still, but I'm more present. That's all. I have the tools. So, when I'm here, I take a deep breath. Okay, refocus. It's like a meditation. For those of you who meditate, everyone's like, but Jessica, I can't meditate. I can't clear my mind. I'm like, that's not my interpretation. The point of meditation. It's not about clearing my mind. It's about bringing my mind back, and bringing my mind back, and bringing my mind back. So completing tasks is like a meditation for me sometimes as well.
Nancy Rush:
I love that. It's so true because it's like our monkey brains can get us focused on any number of random things. And before you know it, 30 minutes, an hour, two hours has gone by and you are at the end of your day. You're like, I was so busy today, but I didn't really accomplish anything.
Jessica Burrell:
No committed action. I used to find myself doing this, I don't know if this is true for you too, Nancy, but I would find myself cleaning that junk drawer until I got ahead of it, and I'd be hands in front of that junk drawer open cleaning it, and I'm like, how did I get here? <Laugh>. I was so on autopilot and avoidance that I was already at my junk drawer cleaning it. And then I'm like, what am I doing? Then I started to notice it was my pattern, so then I could start to get ahead of it.
Nancy Rush:
That's so great. Let's talk a little bit about the doers, because I know this is sort of a category of people for me too, that they're perpetually in action. They're like, I don't have any problem taking action. I'm in action all day long. And they're not really seeing the results that they want in their business. So, tell me a little bit about that disconnect.
Jessica Burrell:
Ooh, that's a great question. I love it. So, my challenge to them would say, do a week and write down everything that you're doing. And then start to really examine that against your strategy, if you haven't. And if you don't, that's what you get to create. I'm a human doer too, <laugh>. So, I get it. I feel you, trust me. And when I did the exercise of the tasks I was actually doing, and I got really real with myself and stopped pretending. I looked at my list and I said, these aren't the tasks, the crap that I'm doing personally. I'm not saying they're doing crap.
The stuff we're doing, it was crap to me. Everything I was doing was of avoiding the busy work. I was doing the busy work to avoid doing the work. I didn't want to do, “what is the number one needle mover in my business reaching out to leads?” What was the thing I was spending 40 hours doing, not reaching out to leads. I can tell you that. I'm not trying to be harsh about it, but I notice I want to be direct. I'm a very direct human. So, the thing is, we want to feel good about what we did at the end of the day. So, we do the things and we're like, oh, I'm really proud at how busy I was. I got stuff done.
I updated my social media bio for the fourth time this week, and I posted my socials. That's an important part of my business. But what I noticed, I was posting on socials, I was doing the things, but when I critically looked at the things I was actually doing, and I compared them to the results I was desiring, they were wildly out of alignment. And I looked at that and I said, okay, what brings me business? Okay, Jessica, where did my last 10 clients come from? Guess what? All personal connections. All word of mouth. So, why was I wasting time on social? Because it was easier. If I could sit back, I could be more comfortable on social media, even though sometimes it's uncomfortable, but for the most part, it's a lot more comfortable than direct reach outs and making asks.
Nancy Rush:
It's so great that you say that because I love it. It's the ways that we get in our own way because we make certain things so important when in reality, it's just the business work. Because I think that idea of having to have the courage to do the things that you don't like to do, like I do not love talking to leads, unless it's a really warm lead, in which case it's awesome, but these colder leads, right? It's not necessarily the most fun process, but like you said, it's absolutely necessary. Also, keeping myself visible, I live in a little teeny tiny remote town. It would be very easy for me to like dig in here and not worry about the other world so to speak.
This whole thing about the to-do list, because I've had this epiphany relatively recently, is that if you looked at my to-do list, and I'm sure yours is the same way, it's a mile long. So, when I look at it, I almost get overwhelmed because there's so many things for me to do. And somebody recently coached me, they said, if you really look at that list with a critical eye, like what you're talking about, what you will discover is that you can sift it into the must do immediately. And it's truly an immediate need. And then there's some that you're going to push off and put it down the road, and then you're going to discover there's stuff on there that's really not important at all. So why are you even wasting time with it?
Jessica Burrell:
The steps I take from my list are what can I eliminate and what can I delegate? I'm a bit of a controller too, so I also like things done a certain way, but also knowing that, but I have a team. And I'll tell you the skill set of delegation is growing, growing, growing, with me all the time. So, what can I delegate? I don't have to do this. Why am I doing this so I can delegate it, or I can automate it. Which really speaks to the geeky side in me. I love automations. I love looking at things and saying like, how can I make this better? There has to be a better way is usually my motto, <laugh>. Then, if it doesn't fall into those three categories, then I'm left with the balance of it and going, okay, so here's actually what I can be doing. And then I can prioritize that. And I begrudgingly start with the thing I want to do the least.
Nancy Rush:
<Laugh>. It's almost like just get it out of the way. Just do it first and be done with it. And then you can go, okay, I'm done. And I think there's a relief too in not allowing the list to get so big and then it's completely overwhelming, then you don't even know your next action is. So, if you can get this clarity around it, and then prioritize. My goal is always to accomplish one or two things for the business every day. Because we're busy, we have lots going on and happening in life, but if I'm taking a committed action to the business every day, I feel like, okay, then I'm showing up. I'm being the person that I need to be to grow the business and to be in service.
Jessica Burrell:
One hundred percent. That's the consistency part. That's that last piece. I’d rather show up every day doing the one to three things. I'm a three-thing girl. So, it's top three, one to three things every single day. That's what's going to create results in your business. And your body, if we're talking about the gym, you can't just do it once. You can't just eat the salad the one time and go, no results?
Nancy Rush:
<Laugh>. I love that. I'm going to think of that next time I eat a salad. But the other thing too, I think it's important to recognize that sometimes you need the third-party perspective to give you that understanding, to provide that support. I would not be where I am in my career today if I didn't have some really valued mentors that have helped me along the path. And that kind of leads me into the next thing you brought up, excellence in leadership. This is a topic that I really am passionate about because I have a team with my company too. They're awesome. And it is continual upgrading for me to show up and to be a leader for them. And a leader for the company, a CEO of a company. So, I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are on this and how we can foster truly excellent leadership, if not for other people, but also for ourselves.
Jessica Burrell:
It starts with me. I have core values that I didn't know I had until I had a coach, and we pulled them out. And it's funny, you're like, I had mentors. I've had a mindset mentor, I've had a strategy mentor, I've had a consistent action support person, and a committed action person and I've had a consistency person. Every step I have had someone supporting me, and I still come in and out. I always have a coach. Leadership coaches have coaches. There's no way I don't have a coach. It's just that perspective. I'll get off that soapbox. I could be on it for the rest of this conversation.
Nancy Rush:
I one hundred percent agree with you too. It upsets me a little bit sometimes when I'm working with people and they put all the excuses in their way. They're like, I can't afford it. I don't have time. My spouse won't let me. And I'm like, oh, but if you could just see the value of this, what it could do for you and to accelerate everything that you're trying to create, that's the beauty in it.
Jessica Burrell:
That has been my experience every time I've had those not great experiences, but I learned so much, just as much from those as I did from all the good ones anyway. So, because I create the value for, I extract the value and the wisdom for myself. I have my own core values. So, I start with my core values and integrity is top of the heap for me. And what that means is how I show up in my business and this interview with you and with my children and at the grocery store and in traffic. I am the same person. You're getting a CEO version or an interview style or my kids get a mom. But it is still me. No one's ever surprised when they meet me outside of how they know me because I'll show up the same, it's the same version of me. It's never confusing for anybody to meet me in any other version of myself. And it matters. Integrity matters and responsibility really, really mattered to me.
With integrity, it was not always like that. I was not always integrous with myself. I broke my word to myself a lot. And when I started to heal my own integrity with myself, my confidence grew. And how I showed up in spaces grew because I knew I could be my word to me. I could be my word to other people. Because I had that accountability, but it was always harder with my myself. So, leading others is how I lead me first. When I show up in integrity and courage and freedom, and powerfully, and I don't judge power, I think we could get onto another conversation, but power and the judgment we have around it, and power is just more I own who I am. I don't apologize for being brilliant and powerful and loving and generous, and I want to show up that way. And when I do, I can own that fact of it. And sometimes people don't like it. That's okay too. But I get way more feedback around the inspiration of women who are owning their voices and showing up powerfully than the opposite, generally speaking.
Nancy Rush:
That's something that I've seen too, this idea that you can be who you are authentically in every facet of your life. And you don't have to put on the different mask for who you show up as a leader. You don't put a different mask on as you show up as a parent or as a friend, as an example. You can just be who you are authentically. And to your point, not everybody loves that. Not everybody loves you a hundred percent. And you have to be okay with that because it's coming from within. It's like I was saying to somebody the other day, the only opinion that matters in your life is your opinion of yourself. That's it. There's always going to be somebody that's going to troll you on the internet. There's always going to be somebody that disagrees with you. And it's totally fine. This idea that you're talking about really understanding what your values are, what is important to you, integrity is a really important one to me too. That filters into absolutely everything I do in every part of my life. But that makes me feel good because I feel like I'm being aligned with who I really am. So, I love this idea of getting this clarity of what's important to you, what your values are before you even start trying to put stuff into the world. If you're already putting stuff out into the world, then looking at that and saying, is this aligned with who I actually am?
Jessica Burrell:
Yes. And I just want to say this because it's so present for me. It's like we can also go, well, I can't do anything until I have my values set. And I can't do anything until I have my strategy. And I'm like, you start now. Start whatever it is on your heart now. Long, long, long before you're ready. Because you're going to shift and change about 624 times anyway. So, waiting for the things and the conditions and everything else to be perfect, it will never happen. I’m going to say I'm just did a reel. I've been putting out social content forever. I don't even know when I started. And I remember the very first time I posted something and I ran, literally ran away from my computer.
Because I didn't want to know. So, I call it a post and run. I would always coach my clients just post and run, post and run is fine. Just post, just do something. Take an action. Do start something, and then you can start to build your strategy and then you can take committed action from your strategy. But starting is the number one thing to do. We're rebuilding at next level. We're rebuilding our social media. So, I'm working with our social media person, and we talked about, hey, what about I started doing a couple reels. So, I'm like, yeah, great. I dyed my hair pink. Fun facts. I had fuchsia hair, <Laugh>.
I went to the P!nk concert. I love P!nk, love P!nk. And I went to the one of my best friends a month and a half ago, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to put semi-permanent washout in fuchsia. Because it's a P!nk concert. Why wouldn't I? But because my hair's so blonde that I couldn't wash it out. We had to color it <laugh>. Anyway, so I had done a reel and then I got feedback from a dear friend who I love and respect. And they're like, your hair was insane. Like, what were you thinking? You should have done your hair first. And the message was good. I just got some feedback, which I value. I am a huge, huge proponent of feedback. I value feedback a lot. And I also get to put it through my internal filtering system too.
So, I say thank you and lots of really good points. And I took a lot of the points on and the hair point also. And then I was like, I could have made a decision to say, oh, I should stop doing videos. I looked ridiculous. I'm embarrassing myself. So, when very next reel was on that exact topic, <laugh>, where I said, have you ever gotten feedback that made you want to quit? I do all the time, and I choose to go forward anyway. I got the feedback with my hair and I'm like, my hair is imperfect. I'm not wearing makeup. But I'm coming here because I could make a choice. Like we talk about the power of choice and the power of interpretation and emotional intelligence all the time.
So, I got the feedback, and I could have made a choice to never do this again. Never said that to me. Not once, not even close. But I interpret it and I'm like, wait, that doesn't empower me. So, let me flip this on its head and say I get to come and do it. In spite of feedback. I get to come and share my message regardless of I get to intake and incorporate his feedback. Because some of it was really valuable and I'm going to use it, but my hair. Okay. So, I have imperfect hair. We're going to get over it. It's going to be fine.
Nancy Rush:
That's so great because, well, first of all, I just want to say way to commit. If you're going to pink concert, you're like showing up. That's awesome. I really like the point. Part of me is like, gosh, would I do that? Would I commit quite that much? I don't know. But I really like what you're saying about this idea that you got this feedback and it was from somebody that you trusted and some of it didn't resonate for you. And you allowed your own alignment to come through. You held true to your personal values. You took the good part of what he said and the rest of it you were like, thanks, that's the end of it. And I think when we can come from that place of self-empowerment, I don't know about you, but I feel stronger, I feel more confident, I feel calmer. It's like I'm showing up and being me. And not everybody will love me. And that's okay. Not everybody may love you with pink hair. That's okay. Because the appearance part of it isn't as important as what's coming from the heart.
Jessica Burrell:
Absolutely. And I think to that, when we talked about like, people coming on and criticizing us and us letting it go, I think haters generally speaking, they're never doing better than you ever. In my experience, <laugh> people don't hate on people unless you’re doing better then they hate on people. They're doing quote unquote worse than in their opinion. I think about it from that lens too. And feedback matters. I demand feedback, but I request feedback from people I love, trust and respect. And I take it and I still discern and I still have discern.
Nancy Rush:
I was having a conversation with my team, I guess it was about a week ago. And we were talking about the dynamics of the summit that we're putting together. And I was giving them feedback on their different roles and the things they're bringing to the table and all of that. And I was like, I would love to hear feedback from you guys because I'm still a work in progress. I'm sure that I'm not doing it perfectly. So, it created this beautiful openness of they felt like they could communicate to me without being punitive and that they were just as valued and respected. I'm quote unquote the CEO. But at the end of the day, in my mind we're all very equal. Because everybody's bringing something so powerful to the table to contribute.
Jessica Burrell:
And it's super shortsighted of you, of me, of us to think, “they don't have feedback for us.” Of course they do. They work intimately with us. They see things that they're going to see, things that we don't see from the seat that they're in, whichever seat that is. They're going to have a different perspective. If we think about sitting at a table, they're going to have a literal different perspective. So, it is valuable to hear it. And then you still get to make the decision, as a leader, back to the original question going, how do I take this into my leadership? It is being open to feedback. I think there's a way to deliver feedback that's going to have people hear it differently. But I think always being open to it. And the other piece I really want to make sure that I'm saying, because I just got this feedback from someone who works for me was, he really respects and values how much I empower my team. So, he had said I’m committed to empowerment because I trust my team. So, it's easy for me to empower them because I'm like, here's the vision. Brene Brown says this in her book too. This is what painted done looks like to me. Here's the tools. Let me know if you need support.
Nancy Rush:
That's great. They love working for you.
Jessica Burrell:
This is my vision. And I explain it and I say, what are you hearing me say <laugh>? So I know they know, and we're both on the same page. They're clear on the tools, they're clear on the deadline. And then we have a checkpoint and then they get to, to create it. I have no desire to micromanage somebody, even though I have, I'm a controller by tendency. I like excellence, I want things to be done well, but I also get that I need to have the right person in the right roles. Which is hard sometimes because they may not be in the right role.
Nancy Rush:
I've experienced this too. And I've learned some hard lessons around that. And one of the things that I have coached myself and my team is that no one comes into the company unless they are truly energetically aligned with us, with our values, with what we're representing, the services that we're putting into the world. And it has to be a true alignment. It can't just be lip service. I remember I wanted back in the corporate days a job. So, I would say whatever I thought they wanted me to say. And it's like, no, no, no, we're going to cut through all of that. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in having an authentic conversation about who you are and your contribution and all that.
Jessica Burrell:
I feel like because I've done so much work, I can get there in a conversation a lot quicker. Because I worked corporate for 20 years and I led people, I led processes and a similar thing. There was one job I really wanted, and I rocketed interviews, and I got the job, and then I got in the job and I'm like, oh my God, what was I thinking? It backfired. Because I wasn’t all that happy in the job. I thought I wanted it so much. It was the literal last job I had before I left corporate to be my own. And of course I was in that job, and of course it was the only job I didn't like in my 20-year career. And it was one right before I finally made the decision to leave corporate and be an entrepreneur full-time and pursue my dreams. And thank goodness, thank goodness it happened. So, it was made a lot easier to leave, <laugh>.
Nancy Rush:
Well, I think sometimes you need that, that was probably the experience that put you at the “I'm really going to do this.” Because it takes courage to walk away from corporate. I was in corporate for 20, 25 years myself. And I remember that feeling of, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to create my own business. And then it's like, what am I doing? Am I crazy? I won't have a steady paycheck, and that was a long time ago, but I remember it well.
Jessica Burrell:
Same, all the same things. I've also had the blessing to be able to take a lot of what I learned in those 20 years in corporate. Hiring and interviewing and knowing when it's time to let someone go. I'm already late when I know it's time to let someone go, I'm also like, oh, this should have happened before this moment. And then that's one thing I do run. It is hard. It is uncomfortable, but as far as leadership goes, you can't have people in the wrong roles because it doesn't work for you. And trust me, it does not work for them. They’re just as uncomfortable as you are. I think about it as like letting them and releasing them to do something that's going to be more in alignment for them also. It's not just for me, there's so much energy on relationships that aren't working.
Nancy Rush:
I think that's a really fantastic viewpoint because I've learned to think about it that way too. There's a reason why there's not an alignment there, but honestly this is an opportunity for them to step into something better. And then it opens the door for something new to come in for us, which is better for us. So, I view it as mutually beneficial, which I will be honest, there were times in my corporate career where I had to fire people, and it did not feel mutually beneficial. It was uncomfortable and all that, but at the same time, you don't know what you don't know. And you have to just trust that this is the opportunity for them to step into something bigger. Like you leaving the last job and then stepping into entrepreneurship and it's like, now look where you are. It's fantastic.
Jessica Burrell:
Thank you for that. And I think that's just it. How are we consistently, as CEO as a leader, whether you're leading your own business, no matter what role you're in, you're a leader. No matter what role you're in, you're a leader. You're leading yourself and you're leading the projects you're on, you're leading the people around you or the work that you're doing. And it's about how do I continuously ask myself, how do I want to show up to this? How do I want to be in this? What's the energy that I'm creating? And no matter what, we are all humans. We're all imperfect. We're going to make mistakes. I think this is the thing from leadership that I took as has been my biggest growth edge too, is I'm going to make mistakes. And the most important thing I can do, that we can do, is to make the mistakes. Not let the fear of making mistakes stop me from making mistakes. Because I wouldn't know if it's a mistake because I'm not even going to give myself the permission and risk it, but I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to make mistakes and allow it to be okay that I can make mistakes. But I'm going to be responsible about it also. I'm going to take that experience and I'm going to look at it from a lens of like, okay, what worked about that? What didn't work about that? What's next for me?
It's not just the thing, but I'm going to actually take time and debrief that situation to say something worked about it. It isn’t all crap <laugh>, something worked, some things didn't work, but what's the wisdom I'm actually extracting to take into what's next? Because if we're not learning from our mistakes, then it's silly. It's irresponsible is what it is. If we're just making mistakes and not intentionally learning from them, that is not leadership. That's not responsibility.
Nancy Rush:
I think that's great. And that's the same thing too, is that I know for me, I tend to be a little high control too. And there was a period of time where I wanted everything to be perfect, and then if I made a mistake, it was this devastating, oh God, I made this mistake. Now my perspective is very different. You are going to make mistakes and it's a matter of your choice in terms of how you choose to interact with that, and then how you choose to course correct. Rather than completely falling off the path and going into a tailspin for however many days <laugh>.
This has been fantastic. We could certainly talk for another 30 minutes easily, <laugh>. So, let me give you just a couple of minutes to talk about your free gift because I'm super curious about what it is, and I love that you call it Dream. So, share with us what it's all about.
Jessica Burrell:
It is a five-day self-directed little mini course we call Dream. You get an email once a day for five days. It's super digestible, very easy to do. And what's the point of it? It is to get really clear on what you want. It's kind of like, what are my core values? What is my strategy? It's a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about. How do I want to show up? Do I even know what I want? It's all of those elements put into five days where you come and create a little bit of time for yourself. Show up for yourself. So, start by showing up for yourself for it and get in the question of what do I want? And I like to say, if you give yourself permission to want whatever you want. Because sometimes I know for me, I need permission, like I had to give myself permission to, because I worked corporate, so I had the good job and I had a house and a car and kids and a dog. I'm like, I have what I want, don't I? But I knew I didn't in my mind. But I had to say it's okay to want more Jessica. So, once I gave myself permission, then I could start to dream.
So, it's five days of exercises to expand you beyond what you think you know, beyond what you think you want. And there's an exercise for everyone. So, if you're a little control, it's good. If you are more analytical, like data and numbers, there's an exercise for that. And there's an exercise just to be in our dream and our expansion. So, before we get into the contraction of a strategy and figuring it out but be in the expansion of what you are dreaming and allow yourself to do that. Give yourself the time, you're worth it and see what you discover. See what's new and different. A lot of times I do the exercises and I'm like, yeah, I knew I was kind of expecting that and that's okay. It reinforces what I know. And sometimes something new comes in and I'm like, oh, well that's new. Okay. It feels very exciting. So, it's five days myself and another trainer at Next Level. We take turns and go through the days and it's really exciting and there's a lot available.
Nancy Rush:
It sounds awesome. And I think to your point, I know that I forget that I need time to actually reexamine, really think, feel into what is it that I really want. Because life is moving quickly and you're like, oh, the to-do list, here we go again. But to have this opportunity, and I love how you're curating it so that they can come through this process, and it doesn't matter what personality type they are, they can still come away with this incredibly invaluable information. So very cool.
Jessica Burrell:
And the timing is really perfect with the summit too, Nancy. So, end of the quarter, beginning of the quarter, but also as we're in the fourth quarter, unless you're catching this on a different replay somewhere, it's fall. So, wrapping up the year and getting ready to start this last quarter of this year, or even getting ready to head into New Year.
Nancy Rush:
Well, interestingly, my free gift is that I'm teaching a three-day masterclass on the ancient art of the 9-Star Ki, which is an incredibly powerful yet simple system that helps people discover their inner blueprint. Their beautiful inner blueprint. So, what we'll be doing is we'll be spending the three days doing a deep dive into it to give people, this is really about helping people. Very similar to what you're talking about, helping them understand their patterns, their ingrained behaviors, how they're wired, how they show up in the world, how they might show up in the world a little differently than who they truly are authentically. And then possibly even more important, it teaches us to how to be in better relation with people. To understand them from a place of compassion and empathy. So, in and who they are, and also how to navigate that communication more. It's learning how to communicate in a way that is satisfying and rich for both of you. And then because of how I teach, there's going to be lots of insights and there'll be some strategy and some laser coaching that'll come along the way too. So, that's what we're all about for the masterclass.
Jessica Burrell:
Beautiful. Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Nancy Rush:
Thank you for being here. It's been awesome, and I can't wait for everybody to hear all the good stuff we talked about. I think they're going to get a lot out of it for sure.
